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	<title>Comments on: Cultural smokescreens</title>
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	<description>Providing a clear perspective on developing science and technology responsibly</description>
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		<title>By: 2020 Science in 2009 &#8211; and a chance to win a rather nifty 2020 Science Mug!</title>
		<link>http://2020science.org/2009/05/06/cultural-smokescreens/comment-page-1/#comment-47608</link>
		<dc:creator>2020 Science in 2009 &#8211; and a chance to win a rather nifty 2020 Science Mug!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 03:11:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://2020science.org/?p=1401#comment-47608</guid>
		<description>[...] Cultural smokescreens (May 6) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Cultural smokescreens (May 6) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Interesting Stuff: Early June 2009 &#171; The Outer Hoard</title>
		<link>http://2020science.org/2009/05/06/cultural-smokescreens/comment-page-1/#comment-13755</link>
		<dc:creator>Interesting Stuff: Early June 2009 &#171; The Outer Hoard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 07:02:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://2020science.org/?p=1401#comment-13755</guid>
		<description>[...] C. P. Snow was really trying to say. [via [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] C. P. Snow was really trying to say. [via [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Two Cultures Divide That Matters is Between &#8220;Rich&#8221; and &#8220;Poor&#8221; &#124; The Intersection &#124; Discover Magazine</title>
		<link>http://2020science.org/2009/05/06/cultural-smokescreens/comment-page-1/#comment-8744</link>
		<dc:creator>The Two Cultures Divide That Matters is Between &#8220;Rich&#8221; and &#8220;Poor&#8221; &#124; The Intersection &#124; Discover Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 12:15:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://2020science.org/?p=1401#comment-8744</guid>
		<description>[...] Stefan Collini says it. Nature says it. Andrew Maynard says it. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Stefan Collini says it. Nature says it. Andrew Maynard says it. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Maynard</title>
		<link>http://2020science.org/2009/05/06/cultural-smokescreens/comment-page-1/#comment-8700</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Maynard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 23:36:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://2020science.org/?p=1401#comment-8700</guid>
		<description>To be honest Andréia, I&#039;m not sure how clear Snow&#039;s underlying message really is in the 1959 lecture, without the help of hindsight.  

The other aspect of this that intrigues me is how Snow is held accountable for what he originally saw as a 1-hour late afternoon lecture.  Imagine having something you said once in a public lecture - that wasn&#039;t necessarily given in a profoundly influential setting - picked apart and critiqued for the next 50 years.  I think everything of mine would crumble in the first 5 minutes!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be honest Andréia, I&#8217;m not sure how clear Snow&#8217;s underlying message really is in the 1959 lecture, without the help of hindsight.  </p>
<p>The other aspect of this that intrigues me is how Snow is held accountable for what he originally saw as a 1-hour late afternoon lecture.  Imagine having something you said once in a public lecture &#8211; that wasn&#8217;t necessarily given in a profoundly influential setting &#8211; picked apart and critiqued for the next 50 years.  I think everything of mine would crumble in the first 5 minutes!!</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Jones</title>
		<link>http://2020science.org/2009/05/06/cultural-smokescreens/comment-page-1/#comment-8699</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 23:32:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://2020science.org/?p=1401#comment-8699</guid>
		<description>Andreia, re the Tate event, it was only Beer who explicitly stressed the &#039;human good&#039; angle to Snow&#039;s motivation. That&#039;s not to say the other stresses and arguments were wrong or badly argued - just that this angle, which sort of appeals at a different level, wasn&#039;t always stressed. I blogged at the time - check it out!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andreia, re the Tate event, it was only Beer who explicitly stressed the &#8216;human good&#8217; angle to Snow&#8217;s motivation. That&#8217;s not to say the other stresses and arguments were wrong or badly argued &#8211; just that this angle, which sort of appeals at a different level, wasn&#8217;t always stressed. I blogged at the time &#8211; check it out!</p>
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		<title>By: Andréia Azevedo Soares</title>
		<link>http://2020science.org/2009/05/06/cultural-smokescreens/comment-page-1/#comment-8677</link>
		<dc:creator>Andréia Azevedo Soares</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 21:08:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://2020science.org/?p=1401#comment-8677</guid>
		<description>What can I say?  
It is an illuminating text for me. 
I&#039;ve read loads of texts on Two Cultures and none of them clearly stressed this poignant issue of C.P.Snow&#039;s agenda. I don&#039;t blame who wrote them - I should have carefully read Snow&#039;s 1963 essay and I didn&#039;t. I  also attended to the &quot;CPS: Arts and Science Now&quot; event on 24th January at Tate Modern (the one mentioned above by Tim Jones) and didn&#039;t grasp that political message. Sometimes we are so focused in a subject (&quot;our&quot; subject) that we only hear what we expect to. I&#039;ve missed the point of Snow&#039;s Two Cultures. 
Thanks for sharing this with us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What can I say?<br />
It is an illuminating text for me.<br />
I&#8217;ve read loads of texts on Two Cultures and none of them clearly stressed this poignant issue of C.P.Snow&#8217;s agenda. I don&#8217;t blame who wrote them &#8211; I should have carefully read Snow&#8217;s 1963 essay and I didn&#8217;t. I  also attended to the &#8220;CPS: Arts and Science Now&#8221; event on 24th January at Tate Modern (the one mentioned above by Tim Jones) and didn&#8217;t grasp that political message. Sometimes we are so focused in a subject (&#8220;our&#8221; subject) that we only hear what we expect to. I&#8217;ve missed the point of Snow&#8217;s Two Cultures.<br />
Thanks for sharing this with us.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Maynard</title>
		<link>http://2020science.org/2009/05/06/cultural-smokescreens/comment-page-1/#comment-8599</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Maynard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 13:03:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://2020science.org/?p=1401#comment-8599</guid>
		<description>Thanks Tim.

I&#039;m glad Gillian Beer was on top of the underlying issues here back in January - that&#039;s an event I was sorry to miss.  This week&#039;s Nature editorial also focused on the &quot;improving humanity&#039;s lot&quot; issue, which I was pleased to see:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v459/n7243/full/459010a.html

On the romantic connotations of suffering, I didn&#039;t get the chance to expand on this in the blog, but it doesn&#039;t take too much to unearth similar thinking - even today!  I listening to Dean Kamen on Monday focusing on his efforts to get distributed water purification systems out into developing countries.  His system isn&#039;t the cheapest, but it does provide an extremely high quality product (medical grade distilled water).  And importantly, it enables the simple/low maintenance production of good-tasting potable water from any source in a plug-and-play package.  But in talking with agencies that could help develop and distribute the system, he met with an attitude of &quot;chlorine tablets are cheaper, and anyway, the locals like the taste they give the water.&quot;  In other words, a bit of suffering is good for the soul - as long as it&#039;s someone else&#039;s suffering.

Similar attitudes are seen in groups around the world that oppose technological advances in favor of the status quo - usually while enjoying the benefits of such advances themselves.

Anyway, end of hobby horse!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Tim.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad Gillian Beer was on top of the underlying issues here back in January &#8211; that&#8217;s an event I was sorry to miss.  This week&#8217;s Nature editorial also focused on the &#8220;improving humanity&#8217;s lot&#8221; issue, which I was pleased to see:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v459/n7243/full/459010a.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v459/n7243/full/459010a.html</a></p>
<p>On the romantic connotations of suffering, I didn&#8217;t get the chance to expand on this in the blog, but it doesn&#8217;t take too much to unearth similar thinking &#8211; even today!  I listening to Dean Kamen on Monday focusing on his efforts to get distributed water purification systems out into developing countries.  His system isn&#8217;t the cheapest, but it does provide an extremely high quality product (medical grade distilled water).  And importantly, it enables the simple/low maintenance production of good-tasting potable water from any source in a plug-and-play package.  But in talking with agencies that could help develop and distribute the system, he met with an attitude of &#8220;chlorine tablets are cheaper, and anyway, the locals like the taste they give the water.&#8221;  In other words, a bit of suffering is good for the soul &#8211; as long as it&#8217;s someone else&#8217;s suffering.</p>
<p>Similar attitudes are seen in groups around the world that oppose technological advances in favor of the status quo &#8211; usually while enjoying the benefits of such advances themselves.</p>
<p>Anyway, end of hobby horse!</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Jones</title>
		<link>http://2020science.org/2009/05/06/cultural-smokescreens/comment-page-1/#comment-8591</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 12:33:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://2020science.org/?p=1401#comment-8591</guid>
		<description>This is helpful; and smokescreen is an appropriate metaphor.

There has been so much high-jacking of Snow&#039;s commentary for personal/group  agendas.  It reminds me of a two-cultures event at the Tate in January, when Gillian Beer dragged delegates back to Snow&#039;s real motivation of improving the global human lot, and that the &#039;divide&#039; was an inhibiting factor - not some academic debating point.

Sure - any romantic connotation to suffering certainly needs putting to bed.  Who has time for that?

We might also remember that the period between Snow&#039;s lecture and follow-on comments, e.g. in 1962,  saw the start of the 10 year International Biological Programme (IBP), under Edgar Barton Worthington - a first attempt to manage rationally the world’s reserves in the face of a changing environment and rising population - sound familiar?   Point being - this sort of global thinking was in the air and taking off.

And indeed - just to throw this in, I think the very present driver of climate strange, with its interlinked highlighting of energy/biodiversity/science/technology/economics/developing nations - even population, may push the real Snow agenda along more than anything else....By necessity....which is the basis on which most folk seem to act.
 
I enjoy Dawkinsian scrapping in favour of science and rationality as much as the next person, but we should - also - focus on the practicalities of the word &#039;humanity&#039; - rather than its academic incarnation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is helpful; and smokescreen is an appropriate metaphor.</p>
<p>There has been so much high-jacking of Snow&#8217;s commentary for personal/group  agendas.  It reminds me of a two-cultures event at the Tate in January, when Gillian Beer dragged delegates back to Snow&#8217;s real motivation of improving the global human lot, and that the &#8216;divide&#8217; was an inhibiting factor &#8211; not some academic debating point.</p>
<p>Sure &#8211; any romantic connotation to suffering certainly needs putting to bed.  Who has time for that?</p>
<p>We might also remember that the period between Snow&#8217;s lecture and follow-on comments, e.g. in 1962,  saw the start of the 10 year International Biological Programme (IBP), under Edgar Barton Worthington &#8211; a first attempt to manage rationally the world’s reserves in the face of a changing environment and rising population &#8211; sound familiar?   Point being &#8211; this sort of global thinking was in the air and taking off.</p>
<p>And indeed &#8211; just to throw this in, I think the very present driver of climate strange, with its interlinked highlighting of energy/biodiversity/science/technology/economics/developing nations &#8211; even population, may push the real Snow agenda along more than anything else&#8230;.By necessity&#8230;.which is the basis on which most folk seem to act.</p>
<p>I enjoy Dawkinsian scrapping in favour of science and rationality as much as the next person, but we should &#8211; also &#8211; focus on the practicalities of the word &#8216;humanity&#8217; &#8211; rather than its academic incarnation.</p>
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